Old dog lump?

Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article ,
> chardonnay9 wrote:
>
>>Side tracking again I see. I said nothing that relates to what you
>>posted. What does it matter if you travel? One shot is good for a
>>lifetime of protection.
>
>
> Good luck getting your dog into a boarding kennel, across a
> national boundary, onto an airplane, or any number of other
> venues without a health certificate that includes
> vaccinations.

Good luck registering for a class, and welcome to hell if your dog is
involved in any sort of an incident in public, at a match or a tournament.

"One shot is good of a lifetime of protection"?

Guess what we've got in our local school district?

A whooping cough epidemic.

Guess why?

Because dumbass parents couldn't be bothered to stick to a vaccine
protocol, assuming their children were protected after one or two shots,
instead of the whole series.

Whooping cough is miserable and debilitating in teenagers. In toddlers
and infants exposed by sick teens the damage can be permanent. My
daughter, who completed the entire series of shots on schedule, was
frog-marched down to the nurses office by an assistant principal because
she choked on a gulp of diet soda and couldn't catch her breath.
Fortunately, her documentation was all in order.

I'm sick of the measles epidemics that come roaring out of the Christian
Scientist Academies (a large pool of non-vaccinators), exposing pregnant
women and infants.

I'm friggin' sick of irresponsible asswipes relying on herd immunity to
protect their unvaccinated pets and spawn.
 >> Stay informed about: Old dog lump? 

shore RemoveThis @panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote in
@panix2.panix.com:

> Well, look - in nearly any sample you're going to have some
> variability, hence that old saw about anecdotes and data.

Yes. Even without a big brane or a fancy schmancy education, it
shouldn't be too difficult to understand that. If you aren't Chard,
that is.

> If Crab Beet weren't using "will" and "does" and other
> absolutes she'd actually be covered, or at least she'd be
> able to explain these individual cases as normal variation.

Of course, and that was my point. The way she's structured the story
problem, it's very easy to point out the flaws. I *do* kind of
admire the way she ignores them, though.

> (or were smarter or whatever the problem is).

Less zealoty?

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
 >> Stay informed about: Old dog lump? 

Janet Boss wrote:
> In article ,
> chardonnay9 wrote:
>
>> And have you actually looked at the rabies stats in your area? The
>> numbers are frequently exaggerated to scare you into getting more shots.
>> There have been no rabid dogs in my county for decades.
>
> Matt, like many of us, travels out of his immediate are with his dogs.
> I guess yours don't get to go anywhere or do anything?
>

Mine don't ever have to wear those nasty CUSTOM MADE pronged spiked
pinch choke collar! Those are for people who can't train.
 >> Stay informed about: Old dog lump? 

In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
>Mine don't ever have to wear those nasty CUSTOM MADE pronged spiked
>pinch choke collar! Those are for people who can't train.

If you think that nobody notices when you change the
subject, you're very wrong about that, too. If you take
your dog places (classes, travel, boarding, etc.) health
certificates and/or proof of vaccination is required.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - shore.DeleteThis@panix.com

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
 >> Stay informed about: Old dog lump? 

Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article ,
> chardonnay9 wrote:
>
>>Mine don't ever have to wear those nasty CUSTOM MADE pronged spiked
>>pinch choke collar! Those are for people who can't train.
>
>
> If you think that nobody notices when you change the
> subject, you're very wrong about that, too. If you take
> your dog places (classes, travel, boarding, etc.) health
> certificates and/or proof of vaccination is required.

Yep. Most boarding facilities require them and do not allow titers. If
you are at any dog show, anywhere, you must be able to provide proof of
vaccinations and it states such in the premium.

Now if you want to hear something strange, I was NOT required by
American Airlines to have a health certificate for my dog to travel in
the plane under my seat, but they did suggest I get one "just in case."
I did. If your dog is to travel cargo in a plane a health certificate is
required.

It's dangerous to not vaccinate pets. And chardonnay is wrong (as usual)
that a single vaccination protects a dog for life. The jury is still
very much out on that one, and as far as I know, no studies have shown
this to be true. It is true that we probably used to overvaccinate and
can vax less. But they're still very much needed, as anyone whose dog
has died of parvo will tell you. Which reminds me of a "big name" I know
who doesn't believe in vax at all. Had a lovely up-and-comer who died at
3 from parvo. Has also had a lot of other health issues and strange
diseases/infections in his dogs.
 >> Stay informed about: Old dog lump? 

"Robin Nuttall" wrote in message

If
> you are at any dog show, anywhere, you must be able to provide proof of
> vaccinations and it states such in the premium.

Actually the statement on the premium I have on my desk - which is pretty
close to the common wording around here - says "Exhibitors should follow
their veterinarian's recommendation to assure their dogs are free of
internal and external parasites, any communicable diseases, and that they
have the appropriate vaccinations".

I do a couple of trials a year where the site insists that they have copies
of rabies certificates with the entry - or you don't get on the site.

What surprised me when I just looked at it closely, none of the premiums I
have on hand state that they *don't* allow dogs in heat. They allow for
refund if your dog is pulled because she is in heat. And more clubs are
also allowing refunds if your dog is injured. But there is no statement -
and I thought it was a rule - that dogs in heat can't compete.

As someone who has lost Qs because dogs in heat were on the table before my
dogs - in heat as in *bleeding* on the table - I find that lack of rule
somewhat amazing. I can't proof for that well enough not to end up with a
refusal as the dog at least briefly checks it out. In one case last year,
an exhibitor pointed out the blood on the table to the judge. They cleaned
the table but obviously not well enough because it got dogs of both sexes
and all levels all day. That's pretty damned rude but apparently not
against the rules.

Judy
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In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:

>
> Mine don't ever have to wear those nasty CUSTOM MADE pronged spiked
> pinch choke collar! Those are for people who can't train.

Mine don't wear them (what the hell IS a pronged, spiked, pinch, choke
collar exactly?) either. Your point? If yours never leave your yard, I
guess no collar is needed.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
 >> Stay informed about: Old dog lump? 

> the incidence of rabies in wild animals, however, is growing in much
> of the country. i'm not worried about my dogs getting rabies from
> other dogs.

It's not just rabies that is a concern. Leptospirosis (the 'L' of the
DHLPP - distemper vax) is shed in the urine of infected dogs and wildlife
and can also infect humans.

And parvo is such a fatal disease that is a cruel, suffering death. So
easily prevented, yet something I guess which is acceptable to chard.
 >> Stay informed about: Old dog lump? 

chardonnay9 said in
rec.pets.dogs.health:

> Rocky wrote:
>> chardonnay9 said in
>> rec.pets.dogs.health:
>>
>>> That this vet vaccinated the dog after already knowing
>>> it's had adverse reactions is against what the
>>> manufacturer says.
>>
>> I wrote earlier (a post to which you responded) that this
>> was the first reaction this dog had had.
>
> And also said that *all* your dogs had had a reaction.

Not to the rabies vaccination, which is what this discussion
is about.

My other two dogs had a reaction to the *full complement* of
vaccinations taken at the same time, *not* to the rabies
vaccine lone. As soon as we went to a three year rotation
(Rocky) or giving the RV three weeks after the DPV (Maybe),
there were no adverse vaccine reactions.

The latter protocol, BTW, is recommended by Dr Dodds.

> How many times does it take till you learn?

When will you learn to read?

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
 >> Stay informed about: Old dog lump? 

Judy wrote:

>
> What surprised me when I just looked at it closely, none of the premiums
> I have on hand state that they *don't* allow dogs in heat. They allow
> for refund if your dog is pulled because she is in heat. And more clubs
> are also allowing refunds if your dog is injured. But there is no
> statement - and I thought it was a rule - that dogs in heat can't compete.

It is. Clubs don't need to put in the premium that a bitch in season
can't compete because it's in the AKC rules for each individual sport
whether or not they're allowed. They are, of course, in breed. Not in
obedience/agility. The premium is not to explain the rules of the sport
but what's allowed on the grounds. And though bitches in season aren't
allowed to compete in agility you will sometimes see them at trials.
There are people like me who have to bring all their dogs or they don't
get to go.

>
> As someone who has lost Qs because dogs in heat were on the table before
> my dogs - in heat as in *bleeding* on the table - I find that lack of
> rule somewhat amazing. I can't proof for that well enough not to end up
> with a refusal as the dog at least briefly checks it out. In one case
> last year, an exhibitor pointed out the blood on the table to the
> judge. They cleaned the table but obviously not well enough because it
> got dogs of both sexes and all levels all day. That's pretty damned
> rude but apparently not against the rules.

Yes it is absolutely against the rules, and if you could find the dog,
the owner could be cited. I too have lost runs because of a dog in heat
being run; my green as grass intact male Min Pin couldn't handle it.
However, I have to say that almost none of the experienced (Excellent)
dogs had a problem with it. Life happens, and there are girls in season
everywhere; it's our job as owners of boys with dangly bits to help them
learn to deal with it. And they can.
 >> Stay informed about: Old dog lump? 

"Judy" said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

> What surprised me when I just looked at it closely, none of
> the premiums I have on hand state that they *don't* allow
> dogs in heat.

As Robin said, it's in an organisation's rules. In mine, for
example, the dog in heat isn't even allowed on the trial
grounds, though most clubs are forgiving depending on the venue
setup (for example, if you can bench her a good distance from
all of the other dogs).

> They allow for refund if your dog is pulled
> because she is in heat. And more clubs are also allowing
> refunds if your dog is injured.

We refund fully if you pull before the closing date (for any
reason); with a vet certificate, you can pull up to the day of
the trial. If you pull without health reasons after closing,
we'll refund fully if that spot gets filled, but hold back some
money if the catalog and gate lists have been printed.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
 >> Stay informed about: Old dog lump? 

"Robin Nuttall" wrote in message


> It is. Clubs don't need to put in the premium that a bitch in season can't
> compete because it's in the AKC rules for each individual sport whether or
> not they're allowed.

Okay. Then my memory was correct.

> There are people like me who have to bring all their dogs or they don't
> get to go.

I understand that and have no problem with that as long as the dog in heat
isn't interfering with my dog's run.

> However, I have to say that almost none of the experienced (Excellent)
> dogs had a problem with it. Life happens, and there are girls in season
> everywhere; it's our job as owners of boys with dangly bits to help them
> learn to deal with it. And they can.

The bitch in heat was a 24 inch Excellent dog. Excellent big dogs ran first
that day so one of the first, I'm estimating, 20 dogs to sit on the table.
The handler who noticed the blood was running a 24 inch dog so it was
clearly one of the earliest runs.

As it happened, the table was in a corner so the dogs would run up to it
with a slightly different mindset than, perhaps, if it had been in the
middle of the ring.

I don't know what the club used to clean the table but it obviously didn't
kill the scent. (What is with that? I did a trial in Iowa where they used
a Clorox water mixture splashed on the ground to cover where a dog peed!
Like that was going to work!) I was crated on a balcony overlooking the
ring and so got to watch dogs for the rest of the day. I can't say that the
Excellent dogs were any better at ignoring the scent on the table. Male or
female. (And it got both of my dogs.) If the handler was lucky, the dog
got up on the table and then sniffed instead of sitting. Just as many
stopped to sniff and got the refusal.

There were dogs that didn't seem to notice but they were few. The Open and
Novice dogs could still qualify with the refusal at the table but for those
Excellent dogs who hesitated, the Q was gone and the run was turned into
practice. If the bitch had just been in heat and hadn't bled on the table,
we probably wouldn't have figured out why our dogs were losing their focus
at the table.

I really don't think it's all likely that I'm going to train my dogs to
completely ignore blood from a dog in heat. First of all, I have no way of
proofing it, except in a general focus way. The dogs all got their focus
back and finished the runs but with a refusal at the table - or ten seconds
of hesitation before sitting - the Q was gone.

It was just plain rude on the part of the dog-in-heat's owner. I know you
agree with that.

I also blame the club for not having a better system for the scent removal.
DH is an archery hunter so I know there are products available that would
have eliminated that scent completely - even from a dog's nose.

Judy
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